Here you will find the emails from both people who have written their own experiences out, those that want to defend Quaymry and just the general comments that are note worthy.

We neither endorse or not endose these emails, nor for most of them can be comment other than to say they are posted here for you to read through as you ponder your own thoughts of this issue.

Please do feel free to email you thoughts, comments or experiences to be added here we want to hear from you. Send them to cajunrose@atruerose.com with the the subject line of BDSM Symbol.

 Jan 26, 2006

I had started out on ebay making suncatcher and drink coasters.. and I had started making the bdsm symbol out of polymere clay... and he emailed me telling me that

1. he owned copyright and I needed to pay him a licensing fee.

2. That I had to make the symbol according to HIS specifications or it was the bdsm symbol.. he said it had to have holes, and had to be metal.. that I was not allowed to make it in different colors like I was on my suncatchers.

3. I was selling the older version of it.. the triskele/triskellion like the one described in the story of O book..and he said that I needed to make sure I called it that.. and not to call that shape the bdsm symbol.. even tho he said he conceeded that was the oldest version of the true bdsm symbol

Trish
PURE-TNT Jewelry

Jan. 26, 2006

I used the symbol in my commercial business and was contacted by Quagmyr in 1999.

He told me I needed to pay him an user fee and part of all of my future profits. I told him I could not afford to do that. He then had me send him one of my products in lieu of paying a user fee and I had to put up a "thank you" on my commercial site, stating he owned the copyright, showing the emblem and linking back to him.

Please do not include my name as I am still in business and fear repercussions from Quagmyr.

K.

Jan. 26, 2006

I to e-mailed David and talked him about that symbol. I wrote this in 2001

The Triskellion by Mistress Michelle

The Triskellion is the emblem created by David Quagmyr for people of the BDSM community. SEE : http://members.aol.com/quagmyr/history1.htm
Most of you know Safe Sane & Consensual ( SSC) was coined by David Stein in 1983 and most of us prior to 1983 believe in Safety, Experience and Common Sense. The Triskellion was created not by David Quagmyr but adapted from an old Celtic Symbol, commonly used in Celtic/Wiccan spirituality, found in documents & used in jewellry.
See:
www.underthemysticalmoon.com/Newsletters/Spring04.pdf
www.nbizz.com/celticunited/listings/320.html

And The symbol was adapted and used in 1968 for an episode in the 2nd Season of the original series of "Star Trek" - "The Gamesters of Triskellion" - Triskellion being the name of the planet in the episode, from which the name of the SSC Symbol derives. See: http://www.startrek.com/startrek/view/series/TOS/episode/68752.html where pictures are available ( the fight scene)
Its funny to me that use of the name from Star Trek has not created some violation of copyright laws , while the emblem more than likely was never copyrighted because at that time copyright laws did not esist.

Mistress Michelle

Jan. 27, 2006

Hello -

Several years ago I had dealings with Quagmyr. I came across his BDSM symbol jewelry site, and became fascinated by the items. Over 2 years I had purchased many pieces from him. Then wanting something a bit different for my Master, I designed my own lapel pin, then asked him if he could make the piece. After many pain - staking months, and many changes to the pin, finally it was finished. I paid a hefty price for this, believing I had a one of a kind piece of jewelry to give my Master.

Just one month later, my lapel pin appeared on his web site, for sale!

I was heartbroken, as I had excitedly given the only (so far) BDSM lapel pin to my Master, completely designed by me.

He refused to remove the item, stating "we" had not agreed he would not sell the item.

For me, I was shocked that anyone in this lifestyle would take such advantage of another.

That was the end of my dealings with him, until that last tearful email, I respected this man.

Thanks,
CollaredKatie

Jan. 28, 2006

I think it's important, especially in a group of writers, that we reiterate
that not everything that is posted on the internet may be 100% factual. Even
if the facts are correct, interpretations vary according to personal
perspective. I will not declare that the article mentioned above is not
correct, but I will go as far as saying that we all need to remember
perspective and how peoples emotions sometimes get tied up in their writing.

There are many viewpoints to this, and the most important thing is to
remember that while a specific action by a specific person is a matter of
complaint, that does not make the person an otherwise bad person. I do hope
that there are enough clear minds and hearts that can see that this should
not taint what the BDSM symbol means to many of us and to the community.
This also does not make the person mentioned an evil person.

I am certain that not every person who has had been involved in the articles
proclamations has had the same response. I did have more than one contact
with Quagmyr and several discussions about use, proliferation and copyright
issues. I was specifically told that it was not copyrighted. The only
request that was made was a link to the site or somewhere posting the
explanation of the creation and reasoning for the symbol. I agree that it's
important to know WHY it was made the way it was, and what it was intended
to symbolize. Yes, it can evolve for other people, but there is a reason for
those holes, for that size, shape or whatever else.

If you've ever bought a piece of jewelry or other items from this person,
you may notice that every one has an explanation of what it means. That is
the only request I was ever faced with. To make sure that when a person
received it, they know what went into it and why. Good enough for me. I
think it's a beautiful symbol, and I think that the seller of the items
deserves some credit for not only creating the items, but for explaining
their meanings in a heartfelt and understandable way.

As for symbology in general. Symbols do make for handy little shortcuts for
us humans to think we know something about another person. But, can we ever
be sure that the person is aware of the same meanings of a symbol that you
are aware of? I've seen complete newbies who have "known about the
lifestyle" for all of a few weeks sporting not only the symbol mentioned
above, but several others. At that point, they don't even know what they
mean, much less know if they have their own connection to them. At least
trying to make sure that a purchaser has a copy of what it means in their
hand at some point helps people to understand more and respect it more. It
may be a good symbol to have on a website for BDSM groups, but without
meaning, it just becomes art. Art is good, art is fine, but if it becomes a
"symbol", then it has meaning, and it's good to know at least where the
intent was.

I have no criticism for the author of the article, but I do hope that others
do not change their viewpoints just because something was published. There
was not a lot of "seeing both sides" from what I read of the article, and
that may have made me feel a bit more comfortable. It seemed more like a
rant/vent, than a point to ponder. I accept and own that it is my own
perspective in reading. Others may have read it differently. I can accept
that we all interpret things differently. I hope that other readers can have
open minds as well and not just assume that it is a reason to turn our backs
on an important tool and symbol for our community just because someone
published their own perspective and experiences.

Purr

Jan. 28, 2006

If anybody accuses you a of copyright or trademark violation the first
step is to ask them to submit the claim in writing with supporting
documentation - until they do that you can pretty much ignore them.
It also often helps to point out that as a business you will need their
legal name and SSN or EIN on a W9 so that you can report to the IRS any
payments made to them. This will tend to sort the real claims out very
fast.

John (a professional photographer who has to enforce his copyright from
time to time

Oct. 2, 2006

Dear Cajunrose,

	Back to "The Myth of The BDSM Smybol first page
	Further dictionary information and disclaimers.
	The difference between copyright and trademarks.
	Emails of Quagmyr on this subject.

Please continue to send us your emails